Saturday, March 7, 2009

Parking space: Pune property buyers have finally started asking for what should have rightly come free!

Parking can not be sold:

It was in April 2008 that the Bombay High Court ruled that parking did not fall under the floor space index (FSI) granted to the builder, and therefore could not be sold.

The ruling further clarified that the developer is obliged to provide the same when the carpet area of the house is a minimum of 35 sq m.

Builders must provide free parking space:

The Pune City Development Control Rules, and more recently a Bombay High Court judgment on Nehalchand Laloochand Pvt Ltd vs Panchali Co-operative Housing Society Ltd, clarifies that under the Maharashtra Ownership of Flats Act 1963, builders are obliged to provide parking space to all apartments in the society and cannot charge buyers for the same.

To read more, please, visit - Ranjani Raghavan - Indian Express

Can you fight for your rights?

Actually, every property buyer knows that parking is free.

But property buyers don't fight for their rights.

Not because, property buyers fear builder.

Not because, nobody has told them to fight for parking and amenity charges.

Not because, they don't know what is the rational rate of their township.

Property buyers don't fight for their rights only because, most of them believe that to become "happy and successful in life", one must compromise. You have to join hands with the system. Go with the flow. Right? Please, share your views in the comments. (Comments Policy),

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32 comments:

  1. Ravi,
    This is really a very good blog. Since last 1 week I make sure to visit your blog daily.
    What do you say about your dear Montvert? I know that he has been able to impress you very much.

    1. Does montvert cheat it's customers with parking fee or not?
    2. MSEB.. most of the builders charge 50K to 1 lakh for MSEB.. that too in cash as a black money.. Can you please write something about this in your blog to bring more clarity.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Every Builder charges parking fees and he officially mentions everything in the agreement. Perhaps Builders themselves are not aware about this ruling or not want to get acquainted with this fact :)

    Builders charge anywhere between Rs. 50,000 to 2,00,000 for a parking space. During these recession times they advertise that they are offering parking free of cost, but it is Buyers right to get it free.

    Ravi, how should one fight against this? If some how consumer manages to get the parking free, these smart builders get the cost from the consumer by other ways such as increase in one time maintenance or development charges etc. Ultimately consumer is the looser in this case. Any ideas about how to deal with this and what about those who got the possession of the flats after the court ruling and paid Parking allotment money to Builders? Can they get their money back?

    ReplyDelete
  3. Dear Ravi,

    Can you please respond to Pradeep?

    You always have been saying that Montvert is a ethical business entity. If this is correct, they should not charge 2.25 lacs for parking. What say?

    ReplyDelete
  4. # Ref:"1. Does montvert cheat it's customers with parking fee or not?
    2. MSEB.. most of the builders charge 50K to 1 lakh for MSEB.. that too in cash as a black money.. Can you please write something about this in your blog to bring more clarity."

    - Parking is not sold. You get reserved space for parking your car. That's how it's mentioned in the agreement.

    - Property buyers know that it is "reserved space", since it is not sold - you don't get a loan and pay from your own pocket for at least one!

    - Corporation also has lows about parking and without enough parking plans are not sanctioned.

    - Builder has to provide free parking because it is not a part of FSI is a law. But property buyers pay for many things which are not part of FSI!

    - Means property rate is not only quoted per sq.ft. charge. (Actually, now, property should be sold on a carpet area not on saleable area!) It is lot more.

    - However, fact is, recent trend of basement car parking adds lot of construction cost and time and increases the property rate.

    But property buyer are impressed with "vehicle free zone" "podium garden" and consider it as special features and pay premium property rate.

    - In any project. Including at Mont Vert.

    - Same is with the MSEB, legal charges, society formation. These are not exactly actual charges.

    - There is no reason to pay cash for anything. Big builders, as far as i know, generally ,don't ask for cash. If some one asks, i wonder why buyers pay!

    - I have already written and we are discussing about it here!

    - While talking about
    rational property rate of Paranjape Schemes' Blue Ridge Hinjewadi,
    i have said about canceling basement parking to reduce the rate.

    - I hope, in this recession, we have to work on rationalization of real estate pricing and buyers expectations too.

    -
    You can read my blog about "waiving parking and amenity charges".


    - That's why i find it very amusing when people talk only about property rates when there are so many issues!

    - About "cheating" I believe that builders are as honest as property buyers. Together, they can be considered as a representative sample of ethics and morality of Indian society!

    - Besides this we have to consider
    other side of the car ownership which is anti socio-economical!


    - I am not kidding. I believe in it and don't own a car or a two wheeler which runs on a petrol or diesel!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Ravi, how convenient? When Monte Vert does something wrong you play the tune of "well.. all do it" but still they are ethical because you say so. And you are putting your reputation (which I suppose it still good) on line for them and their schemes? (pun intended here).
    The RE market must be on the last breath.

    ReplyDelete
  6. # Ref: "Ravi, how convenient? When Monte Vert does something wrong you play the tune of "well.. all do it" but still they are ethical because you say so."

    - Happy? You got a chance to prove me wrong!

    - Let me repeat. I like the "Rent Today Own Tomorrow" offer because it is good for the property buyer.

    - We were talking about transparency in property rates.

    - It looks like that more than property buyers and how they will benefit because of this offer, your focus is on a builder.

    You are hurt because i praised the builder. Now, you want to prove that not only builder but the person who is writing about the builder is also not good.

    I not only understand but also admire your efforts. Because, we form a good team. You look after a builder. I will care for a property buyer.

    ReplyDelete
  7. # Ref: " And you are putting your reputation (which I suppose it still good) on line for them and their schemes? (pun intended here)."

    - Thanks for the complements. It is very sweet of you to care so much for me and my reputation. Good! this topic gave me an opportunity to know how much you admire me. Thanks, once again.

    - Well, now let us behave like grown ups and accept that what you don't like can be good. Or you don't have to like every idea. You are free to reject. You can talk against. So is everyone.

    - Thoughts, ideas, views we express, i don't think, are either right or wrong. Everybody has his own views and he is free to express them without bothering about right or wrong. My friend, this is the basic principal of blogging. In this day and age, everybody is free to express! No editorial policy. No commercial obligations. No censorship!

    - Person whose views are accepted by many becomes popular, but it doesn't mean others are wrong.

    Again, i am more concerned with what property buyers will get out of "Rent Today Own Tomorrow".

    I blog not to become popular by talking against builders but to help the property buyers book a flat. For me my usefulness to the property buyers is more important.

    Thanks for giving me an opportunity to talk about me. I feel shy to express this in my main posts. So most of the time posts become very impersonal, like a news in the media. Please, drop often. I have lot to tell.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hi Ravi,
    I am a regular reader of your blog and have got lot of interesting stuff on Pune real estate. Thanks for that. I am looking for home in Wakad/ Baner area and found one interesting deal. It is for Rohan Seher scheme in Baner and offer is at Rs 2450 per squart feet. Do you think it is a good deal to go ahead with ? or should I wait some more time ? I value your opinion on this, as the market near IT part is very volatile at this time, when many builders are coming up with attractive incentives.

    ReplyDelete
  9. # Ref: "Rohan Seher scheme in Baner and offer is at Rs 2450 per squart feet."

    - Rohan Seher @ 2450! Good. Go for it.

    - Anything @ 2,300 - 2,500 is good.

    - Ready possession at that rate - best.

    - Town house bellow 3,000 certainly. (considering that these are charged more than flats)

    - At Baner, near Pan Card club? Steal.

    - However, bargain! Must in the present market conditions. Thought, the price sounds OK!

    ReplyDelete
  10. # Ref: "many builders are coming up with attractive incentives."

    - That's the irony of real estate.
    Builders may come with the offers but few types of projects at a particular location wont come again and again.

    - For example, a row house or a twin bungalow at Pancard Club.

    Flat at Parihar Chowk.

    Pent house near Pune University.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I read my agreement with a reputed builder. It does not say anything about the parking rate. It just says allotted a parking space number xyz..

    Agreement mentions only carpet area of the flat and what I paid total for it. It also says exclusive right to use the attached terraces ad measuring area abc... sq feet.

    Now let me play a devil's (builder's) advocate here. If they told you that the carpet area of a flat is this and you get one covered car parking and total cost is this. That number will translate to about 4100/- per sq feet on net carpet area basis vs. 3150/- plus parking + mseb etc. on saleable area

    People like us will get turned off we see the 4100/- rate and go to one who sells by the later method not knowing we are paying the same in both case.
    So as a customer this is what I did when I got my flat.
    I made a simple table with 4 columns.( assuming all amenities etc are same)
    1. Builder and project
    2. Net carpet area of the flat
    3. Total area of attached terraces and no. of attached terrace.
    4. Total cost(excl stamp and reg but including parking, MSEB or any other fancy term that a builder uses including floor premium)

    Once you do this exercise you will get your answer on who is the cheapest and who is expensive and if you want to pay that much premium for the particular brand or project.
    Remember cheapest is not always better you need to see who you are dealing with what is the size of each tower, how many flats on each floor. How many elevators for how many flats.
    eg a six story bldg can not be compared with 11 story bldg as the cost of making are different. Regulatory norms are different,

    Anyways I was not aware of all this when I got my flat a few years back but then for my second purchase for investment I was much wiser and got myself educated by bugging many builders on my free days and noting pros, cons and tricks builders use to make the deal look sweeter. I can almost write and idiots guide to home buying in India.

    MORALE: DO YOUR MATH

    ReplyDelete
  12. Pradeep, Atul, Ravi and others please you all look like builder's agents. If Ravi looks like pro Mont Vert, others look like constantly putting Ravi down strongly suggesting a Montvert competitor or its agent.
    So please Ravi I suggest you black out all positive and negative talks on each other and PLEASE PLEASE concentrate on what this blog did best educate and inform clients like me.

    Ravi I think you should just give the facts and let people decide.
    If anyone initiates an unreasonable argument stop it before you publish it.
    I am sure many agrees with me.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Please be careful with location tag of a project. esp all NRIs.
    I suggest you visit the places physically not virtually.
    You can see roads etc leading to the properties.
    eg Baner main road is better than Baner pancard area.

    eg
    Aundh is Aundh and not annex or extension or new or tomorrows aundh
    eg
    Kothrud and tomorrows Kothrud are different
    eg.
    Wakad and Rahathanhi (Wakad annex) are different
    eg
    Hinjewadi IT park is different from near Hinjewadi IT Park. bCose you don't know what is "near".
    eg
    Camp Vs near camp Undri
    eg
    Koregaon Park(KP) Vs, New KP or KP extension.

    eg
    Wakad vs Kaspate wasti Wakad
    eg
    Wakad Vs pimple Nilakh or Saudagar

    Every builder uses his locational weekness by covering it up with a fancy impressive and misleading name.
    I saw a builder write tomorrows Deccan on Bavdhan road a few years back when people were still shitt** on the bavdhan road. Come on I never saw anyone in past 50 years take a daylight dump on the deccan.

    I can go on but you get my point.

    ReplyDelete
  14. # Ref: "Ravi I think you should just give the facts and let people decide.
    If anyone initiates an unreasonable argument stop it before you publish it.
    I am sure many agrees with me."

    - It looks like that the discussion didn't add much to the offer! You found it only argumentative and useless. Reading was nothing but waste of time.

    - If many readers say so i can close the comments but not publishing the "against" comments at all would be a censorship.

    And ignoring or not answering them is against the "spirit of blogging" which is open and free conversation, irrespective of usefulness or uselessness of it.

    ReplyDelete
  15. # Ref: "I can almost write an idiots guide to home buying in India."

    Fantastic idea! Please, write it!! It would be a bestseller!!!

    ReplyDelete
  16. So, What is the suggestion ? Can a person who has bought Parking along with Flat & these details of podium/Stilt parking slots are in agreement get the builder to court to get back money paid ? Since builders do not mention breakup of prices and agreement list overall costs, what can be done by buyer ?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hi guys:
    Nice conversation. Here is what I have to say why do you allow your self to get cheated. Its not like builders do not tell you what they are charging. Pradeep I disagree with you that a builder charging more for a parking is a cheat and it does not matter which builder it is.
    Its will be cheating if he does not tell you the cost break up and hides the charges and then surprises you with higher charges.
    If one feels that during initial survey certain charges are high, you can question that as to reduce it by bargaining and if they still do not do it, you can walk out.
    I got my parking reduced to 50k from 85K during peak boom time for my flat 4 years back with a reputed builder.
    Regarding MSEB you again can refuse cash charges esp in these times a builder will do anything to keep you with him.
    Remember these are our times we buyers can ask for many concession in these hard times for builders.

    ReplyDelete
  18. wll said anonymus about synonyms for the areas. Esp Tomorrows Deccan. LOL

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hello,

    I have doubt on allotment of parking space, one of the place where we are planning to buy we tried to bargain on the price. Today the builder called us and said he is ready to give us the flat in the price we qouted but he would not give parking, but after a bit of discussion he said he will reserve it in our name.

    By reading above discussions i understand that in agreement it isnt mentioned that we buy the parking but it is alloted, Can anyone explain what does the buider mean by saying that he can reserve it in our name without we paying for it?? How is that possible

    ReplyDelete
  20. Dear all ,
    i need help. recently i bought flat & shop, am bit worried abt MSEB charegs.

    i don;t know how they calculate this amt.

    can any1 tell me how builder gain profit frm MSEB chagres

    ReplyDelete
  21. Hi Ravi,
    I had bought a flat with open parking coz builder was not allotting any covered parking before. Now there are few covered parking available and builder is asking us to upgrade, if we want. but he wants the payment only in cash :(
    My Q is 1. Since covered parking is not mentioned in the agreement, is the parking allotment letter is 'valid' and 'enough'?
    2. I know that cash demand is unreasonable but people are already paying and getting covered parking, what choice a consumer has who legally want to upgrade to covered parking.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Dear Ravi ji,

    I booked a flat in Lush County project of Koltepatil in Aug. 2008. But they shelved the project it self, say after 1.5 yrs , and I got my money after 3 long yrs. I had registered my deed by paying stamp duty of 1.75 lakhs which Koltepatil refused to pay. and they till date have not given any written communication that Lush county project is called off. Instead they offered twin bungalow scheme which I did not like. Shall be highly obliged if you give me some practical advice about what options are open for me. I stand to lose heavily on a/c of stamp duty and loss of opportunity.

    Thanks and best regards

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Consult a lawyer for getting refund of your stamp duty & registration fees.

      Delete
  23. Sir, I am getting possession in next week, here in Pimpri Chinchwad Ravet Sector 32A Area. Its a PCNTDA Tender plot. Its a Garv Associates, builder is not giving properly cover parking. He told out of 42 flat it may be for 32 flat owner and for remaining it will be open car parking and 4flat member's will get cover car parking whit made of some shed. Who are getting cover parking its not proper cover parking, some of us are getting cover parking under some balcony of 2nd floor or 3rd floor balcony. Is it cover parking? because car can not cover properly. If we asked he said its cover parking if you see above the car its covered by concert slab, but we ask its too high from car roof.
    Also builder is not providing solar system which is mandatory by PCMC for getting completion certificate from PCMC, if we asked him he clearly said I have managed this and will not provide any how.
    In this scenario can you help us out to tackle this issue with builder.

    ReplyDelete
  24. In own a flat in river residency ..chikhali ..and we do not have any parking ( common) area provided by the builder ... How do we go about this ... And get the builder provide us a common parking area

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Who is the owner of River Residency? Talk to the owner.

      Delete
  25. hi Ravi,your blogs are useful for first time buyers like me, thank you,my building is in Rahatani, all money is white, builder doesnt ask for black money, he would give an individual open parking with infrastrure charges, however he would demand 50 thousand more for closed, he didnt bargain , kindly advice

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi,

      Good effort by Ravi.

      I also wish to put builders uncalled efforts to loot the buyers on account of Parking place.

      Pristine city, bakori which whose phase one is completed and sold is charging 1.5 lakh for parking place from the buyers who already booked the flats. Builder is refusing entry for two wheelers in building compound as they did not purchased the parking place.

      Does the builder does not know uncovered parking is where two wheeler can be parked of flat buyer. And he fooling the other flat buyers by selling coverd parking. Actually it is in societies purview and he can't sell it.

      Delete
  26. Hello Ravi,

    As per my knowledge, builder should provide the parking for all the members of the society. For ex. My society is of 120 flats then he should provide 120 parking or say parking area where at least 120 4 wheeler vehicles can be parked. In my case we only have 69 parking in our society. So how should we ask builder to increase the parking space. Also he is selling the parking for 2 lacks per parking.
    As per his comments he said he will allow to park vehicle in society only for members who have taken the parking for 2 lacks. When we asked for common parking area he said there is NO such area in the society. We should park vehicle outside the society in front of shops. Please guide us.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hello Ravi,

    As per my knowledge, builder should provide the parking for all the members of the society. For ex. My society is of 120 flats then he should provide 120 parking or say parking area where at least 120 4 wheeler vehicles can be parked. In my case we only have 69 parking in our society. So how should we ask builder to increase the parking space. Also he is selling the parking for 2 lacks per parking.
    As per his comments he said he will allow to park vehicle in society only for members who have taken the parking for 2 lacks. When we asked for common parking area he said there is NO such area in the society. We should park vehicle outside the society in front of shops. Please guide us.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello Shrikant! First, please, check the sanction plan & commencement letter of your project. Parking for 4 & 2 wheelers must be marked & mentioned on it.

      Delete